This project is read-only.

Is this still going?

Developer
Nov 30, 2007 at 9:48 AM
I'd love to help work on this, but I'm curious if it's still active? The website I found seemed outdated, and had a link to GotDotNet, which seems to have been consigned to oblivion. If this is still active, let me know if there's anything that needs doing, and I'd be glad to help out.
Developer
Dec 1, 2007 at 6:14 AM
It is still ongoing. Currently, only me is doing some regular coding for TigerMUD since I'm using this as my environment for thesis.

Adam Miller is also available for this project, he has been helping me catch up with various parts of the MUD design.
Coordinator
Dec 1, 2007 at 10:13 AM

Oh yes indeed we're still rocking along!

I just updated the Web site with new information, please let me know what you think of it. We love to have C# devs and testers join us.

In what areas are your programming expertise or areas that you'd like to work on? The sky is the limit here.
Do you have Visual Studio 2005?

Cheers!
Adam
Developer
Dec 2, 2007 at 8:07 PM
I just joined back onto the project as well. I've been away for over a year, but I'm back to start working on stuff again!

So yes, I'd say it's still an active project. ;)
Dec 2, 2007 at 8:27 PM
I'm interested in finding out more about the project. I've read what is available on the website, but I still have many questions. I've been to the site before today actually, but I mistook the project for inactive because there hadn't been a forum post in several months.

Is there another site with more information available? How do you normally communicate with each other?
Coordinator
Dec 3, 2007 at 4:04 AM

Heya!

We normally chat over IM 1:1 as we're coding in the evening and doing checkins and such.

However, for group visibility, please post any questions here and we'll jump on them quickly. You can also contact me directly through codeplex if you'd like to chat 1:1 also. We're talking about doing some group chats on a schedule soon.

This is a new site since we moved from sourceforge where all the old discussions are still there if you want background, but this forum is the place going forward for discussion.

Cheers!
Adam
Developer
Dec 3, 2007 at 7:35 AM
Edited Dec 3, 2007 at 7:38 AM


adammil wrote:

Oh yes indeed we're still rocking along!

I just updated the Web site with new information, please let me know what you think of it. We love to have C# devs and testers join us.

In what areas are your programming expertise or areas that you'd like to work on? The sky is the limit here.
Do you have Visual Studio 2005?

Cheers!
Adam


Technically, I haven't actually done too much C# stuff, but I learn fast. I've been trying to make a Java chat client communicate with a C# chat server; both of these are very bare-bones, though. If I get to join the project, I'll probably start with finding out how it works mostly.

I don't have Visual Studio 2005, but I have 2008 Beta 2... not sure where I might get VS2005, or what the cost would be, but I'll look into it.

Also, it might be a helpful bit of info to note I'm 15, but don't believe the "age equals maturity" thing... for the most part that is >_>
Dec 3, 2007 at 3:37 PM

Soludra wrote:

Technically, I haven't actually done too much C# stuff, but I learn fast. I've been trying to make a Java chat client communicate with a C# chat server; both of these are very bare-bones, though. If I get to join the project, I'll probably start with finding out how it works mostly.

I don't have Visual Studio 2005, but I have 2008 Beta 2... not sure where I might get VS2005, or what the cost would be, but I'll look into it.

Also, it might be a helpful bit of info to note I'm 15, but don't believe the "age equals maturity" thing... for the most part that is >_>


I don't know if there's anything in Tigermud that requires the professional versions, but you can get the express edition of VS2005 at http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/express/aa975050.aspx and 2008 at http://www.microsoft.com/express/vcsharp/Default.aspx
Dec 3, 2007 at 5:12 PM

adammil wrote:

Heya!

We normally chat over IM 1:1 as we're coding in the evening and doing checkins and such.

However, for group visibility, please post any questions here and we'll jump on them quickly. You can also contact me directly through codeplex if you'd like to chat 1:1 also. We're talking about doing some group chats on a schedule soon.

This is a new site since we moved from sourceforge where all the old discussions are still there if you want background, but this forum is the place going forward for discussion.

Cheers!
Adam


About me:

I'm a .NET developer. I build distributed enterprise applications. I don't get anywhere near the UI, my domain starts in the middle tier and goes all the way down from there. Almost everything I've worked on in the past five or six years is heavily dependent on a RDBMS. I work with Oracle and MSSQL. Both have their place, but I personally prefer MSSQL unless clustering is required.

There have been periods of times over the past ~16 years or so where I would call myself an avid mud player. I occasionally lose interest and wander off, but something about them keeps me coming back again and again.

I always preferred LPMuds over DIKU style muds although it was only years after this opinion was formed that I actually understood what the technical differences were. I just found the content on LPMuds more varied and exciting (although perhaps less abundant). In retrospect, I attribute both of those things to LPC -- it gave the wizards a lot of power, but also required much greater expertise to use, cutting down on the amount of content that got developed.

So, in essence: I have experience developing software, and I have experience playing muds -- but I have no experience developing muds, or any other game for that matter. Realistically, most of my experience is dealing with domain problems that are actually pretty far removed from the domain of game development, so I may not be very useful to you at this point in the near future, and I'm not sure how much time I'll be able to allocate, but nevertheless I am interested.

The idea of a driver that essentially provides a 'virtual mud machine' that is runtime malleable utterly fascinates me.

I would like to know more for your vision for the Tigermud platform. Where do you see the line being drawn between functionality defined in the main driver and functionality implemented in the lib/scripting portion? Can the files be replaced/reloaded at runtime? How will you prevent "scripts" written in C# from accessing things they shouldn't? What about resource starvation issues like infinite loops and/or memory exhaustion caused by scripts? I'm sure I'll think of more later, but that's good enough for now.
Developer
Dec 3, 2007 at 11:34 PM

kythorn wrote:

About me:

I'm a .NET developer. I build distributed enterprise applications. I don't get anywhere near the UI, my domain starts in the middle tier and goes all the way down from there. Almost everything I've worked on in the past five or six years is heavily dependent on a RDBMS. I work with Oracle and MSSQL. Both have their place, but I personally prefer MSSQL unless clustering is required.

There have been periods of times over the past ~16 years or so where I would call myself an avid mud player. I occasionally lose interest and wander off, but something about them keeps me coming back again and again.

I always preferred LPMuds over DIKU style muds although it was only years after this opinion was formed that I actually understood what the technical differences were. I just found the content on LPMuds more varied and exciting (although perhaps less abundant). In retrospect, I attribute both of those things to LPC -- it gave the wizards a lot of power, but also required much greater expertise to use, cutting down on the amount of content that got developed.

So, in essence: I have experience developing software, and I have experience playing muds -- but I have no experience developing muds, or any other game for that matter. Realistically, most of my experience is dealing with domain problems that are actually pretty far removed from the domain of game development, so I may not be very useful to you at this point in the near future, and I'm not sure how much time I'll be able to allocate, but nevertheless I am interested.

The idea of a driver that essentially provides a 'virtual mud machine' that is runtime malleable utterly fascinates me.

I would like to know more for your vision for the Tigermud platform. Where do you see the line being drawn between functionality defined in the main driver and functionality implemented in the lib/scripting portion? Can the files be replaced/reloaded at runtime? How will you prevent "scripts" written in C# from accessing things they shouldn't? What about resource starvation issues like infinite loops and/or memory exhaustion caused by scripts? I'm sure I'll think of more later, but that's good enough for now.


Welcome! All of us started where you did, and on this very project: Only some ideas on how to write a MUD server. You're in good c ompany.

Currently, we draw the line at the actual objects. (I may be talking out of date here... I haven't actively worked on the project in a while, but last time I was here...) All the objects -can- be recompiled and reloaded at runtime. Unfortunately, it creates some technical challenges and performance issues as well. I know we had tackled some, but I'm not sure they all got taken care of. As for security, there is currently nothing that stops poorly written (or malicious) objects from doing things. There are ways to restrict what they have access to, but I don't think it's in place. It would be more of an issue if we allowed programming from withing the game, but we don't yet. (Don't think I haven't thought about it, though!)

The line, though... Currently, anything basic or commonly re-used is implemented in the LIB, and anything specific to the object is implemented in it. This line fluctuates as we add new features, of course. I think we're still a ways from a stable API. In fact, I expect to ask to change some things soon... I'll be starting a thread on that soon. :)
Coordinator
Dec 4, 2007 at 5:51 AM
William summed it up really well.

You can drop a new .cs file into the \scripts folder, use the "compile" and "enable" command in game and that code is now live for players. No MUD restart, no logoffs, etc. You can also modify an existing source file in the \scripts folder, then use the "compile" command on it and the change is then live at that second. That's one of my top favorite features and I am very proud of the team's work for it.

So far, the code assumes a dev is both trusted and knowledgeable. They can write scripts that access anything, and they can go wrong by writing scripts that starve threads, deadlock, etc. I think the original idea that non-coders can just hop into tigermud and fufill all their wildest dreams are unrealistic. We cannot offer the flexibility and power that we currently have without assuming alot of knowledge on a dev's part. We can implement code security, but I never personally felt it was fun to write all that code whose only purpose is to stop people from doing things. Instead, it is more fun to me to focus on code that allows you to do new things. I certainly wouldn't prevent someone who was really interested in writing that, however. I can see clear value in it existing.

Since tigermud is being done in people's spare time for fun, I didn't convey a grand vision up front except saying that my main goal was that tigermud be easy to install and get running with the default settings. There are so many MUD codebases that you have to fool around with for a long time before they can even run and I didn't like that. I always wanted to see a MUD that you double-click setup and it just works. So far we achieved that, since all you have to do is run the MSI and you have an operational MUD to login to. Then the next steps are all customization and using all the great code examples to get ideas how to do things, which leads into totally new things depending on your coding skill. This is where the depth of code really gets interesting and the architectural decisions we've made.

I think the holy grail is that devs jump in and create what interests them and have lots of fun, but do it in a way that jives with the main goals, is attractive architecturally, and scales to support real server environments. I would love to see an operational tigermud from which we can get lots of usability feedback, bug reports, and some good feature requests to pursue. A fantastic unexpected tigermud achievement was that I learned a ton more about C# programming and significantly improved my skills. I am very grateful for that and is also why I continue to dream and play here.

We love to have similar thinking people join us.

Cheers!
Adam
Developer
Dec 7, 2007 at 5:45 AM
Alright... I might have missed this on accident, but how would I sign up to help out?
Coordinator
Dec 7, 2007 at 5:06 PM

Soludra wrote:
Alright... I might have missed this on accident, but how would I sign up to help out?


You can begin in many ways. But since you're a little new to C#, I recommend that you first install Visual Studio 2005 Express if you can't get the full version. Download the Team Explorer client and install it on your Visual Studio installation. Use the source control page for the tigermud project to configure the team explorer client. Download the source code and see if you can get everything to compile and run for you.

Let's start with those tasks and see if it works for you and you don't encounter any errors, etc. If you have any problems, please feel free to post the question here and we'll help you.

It's great to see another person interested in tigermud! Welcome!

Thanks!
Adam
Developer
Dec 8, 2007 at 7:05 AM
Edited Dec 8, 2007 at 7:53 AM
Every single link I can find on MSDN for the 2005 Express Editions are sending me to the 2008 ones - even the page saying "Download Visual C# 2005 Express Edition Here"! I have some information from my VB .NET teacher on buying the full Visual Studio for cheaper as a college student though, so I'll have to try that..

EDIT: Just my luck. The moment I post this I find the right link. Ignore!

EDIT 2: Alright, I've got it all set up EXCEPT that I can't connect to the source code server. I've got "tfs03.codeplex.com" as the server name, "8080" - the default - as the port, and HTTPS as the protocol. When I hit OK, it locks up for a few seconds, then pops up an error about not being able to connect...
Coordinator
Dec 8, 2007 at 7:14 PM
Yes, your port and protocol are not set right. On the Source Control page, when you click on the Visual Studio Team Explorer link, it says:

Project Name: tigermud
Username: snd\yourloginhere
Password: <same as your website password>
Server Name: tfs03.codeplex.com
Port number: 443
Protocol: https

Cheers!
Adam
Developer
Dec 8, 2007 at 8:48 PM
Edited Dec 8, 2007 at 9:57 PM
Alright, it was the port that was wrong, then; I was using HTTPS already. I've gotten to the login window now, but assuming I use "snd\soludra" as my username, I must not be authorized or something. I enter my login info, but it doesn't work.

I am connecting now though, so at least I'm getting there.

EDIT: I found this quote at http://www.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?ProjectName=CodePlex&title=Connecting%20to%20a%20CodePlex%20Project%20using%20Team%20Explorer, which might explain my problem:

You will only have permissions for connecting to the CodePlex Team Foundation Server if you have been added as a Coordinator or Developer of one or more CodePlex projects.
Coordinator
Dec 8, 2007 at 10:34 PM
The format of the login names are:

snd\yourname_cp

They add an underscore and a "cp". Pretty strange to me, but that's what we have to do.

Do you have read access to the code? I'm curious if you can do a "get all" from source control without being a dev.
Let me know if it works for you.

Cheers!
Adam
Developer
Dec 8, 2007 at 10:36 PM
Edited Dec 8, 2007 at 10:37 PM
Still no luck with "snd\soludra_cp"... I think the problem is with the quote I posted before. My account probably has no permissions for the server, so it's not letting me in.
Coordinator
Dec 9, 2007 at 1:22 AM
You now have the permissions, please try again and see if it works now.

Thanks!
Adam
Developer
Dec 9, 2007 at 1:54 AM
It worked this time! I've pulled down the tigermud folder, but when I try to open the .sln file, it says the associated program isn't installed - and when I try to run from the apparently separate C# 2005 Express, it says it can't find the source management system. Maybe I installed something wrong?
Coordinator
Dec 9, 2007 at 2:38 AM
I just found this in the Codeplex FAQ:
http://www.codeplex.com/CodePlex/Wiki/View.aspx?title=Obtaining%20the%20Team%20Explorer%20Client

"You can use Team Explorer as a stand-alone source control client, or if you have any version of Visual Studio installed (except the Express editions) than the Team Explorer client will install itself as an add-on which gives you full source control integration within your Visual Studio IDE."

Since I don't use any of the free versions of Visual Studio, I'm not sure how exactly this works then. They are sort of implying that they can work separately. Does it let you cancel out of the source control binding dialogs and edit code, but then switch over to Team Explorer and do check ins and outs?

Developer
Dec 9, 2007 at 2:52 AM
If I open it in C# Express, it lets me permanently remove the bindings, so I'm not really sure about being able to check back in...

Also, there seems to be a file with some kind of ".vdproj" extension, and VC# apparently can't open that.
Coordinator
Dec 9, 2007 at 5:14 AM
As an alternative, you can dump Team Explorer and try the Codeplex client or Teamprise source control clients. I wish I had more to offer on this problem, but we never had to deal with Express edition issues before.

vdproj is a setup project that you use to make MSIs. I'm the only one that normally builds the MSIs for download, so I wouldn't worry about that one working for you.




Developer
Dec 9, 2007 at 5:22 AM
I'll just see about getting the full Visual Studio. As a student at my community college, I can get a student's discount on it, so it's not really too much.
Developer
Dec 28, 2007 at 12:24 AM
Alright, I have VS 2005, academic edition. I'll try to go back through the steps.
Coordinator
Dec 28, 2007 at 5:10 AM

Glad to hear that you have a good copy to work from! Let me know if you have any questions along the way. I'll send you my IM through a codeplex message.

cheers,
adam
Developer
Jan 8, 2008 at 4:43 AM
Back for the year! :D

(and double posting too for some weird reason :\ )
Jan 13, 2008 at 3:55 AM
Edited Jan 13, 2008 at 3:56 AM
I am looking for a C# mud project to work on and I was wondering what type of direction TigerMUD was currently going in? What are the outstanding long term goals?

I had started working on my own from scratch project but I think much more could be accomplished by working on an existing project.
Coordinator
Jan 23, 2008 at 1:48 AM
Hi Bill,

Every one here is a part time dev and code for fun, so we head in whatever direction interests us at the time. Those who add code to the base are the ones who are setting the direction simply by checkin in their contributions.
I have been coding at work so haven't been checking in code recently. Asking questions here is the best way so others can see and participate in the discussion. If you have any technical questions about the codebase, I'll make sure you get an answer. It's been quiet lately with holidays and such, but Ross recently checked in some nice XML object loading code.

Even though we have the basics covered already, I can tell you some things that I know we need and I will either code or certainly let someone else jump in:

Wilderness system
Security for the remote console
Implement plant growth
Expand the spell list beyond the two sample spells
Implement the vendor npc code with menus
Crafting system
Apply generics where they make sense
Implement more skills beyond spell based ones
New character menus for choosing your class and skills
World builder program

You are certainly not limited to these items, as the sky is the limit.

Cheers!
Adam

Jan 29, 2008 at 6:14 PM
Hi,

My name is Kaosoe (Pronounced: Kay-oh-so), My programming experience only dates back 3 years. I am currently a student approaching his bachelors degree in computer science, with experience in C++, C, and Assembly Programming. I am currently learning C# in a visual programming class. I am very pleased to see the work that you guys are doing. I see lots of potential in this project. I am regrettably inexperienced to join the developement team that is currently working on this. But I am definitely going to keep an eye on this as it develops. Glad to see that you are developing such things as character menus to choose class and skills. Can't wait to see what's next.

Sincerely,
Kaosoe
Developer
Feb 3, 2008 at 9:41 AM
Sorry for the huge delay, I've been really busy with other things.

I have VS 2005 all set up with Team Explorer, and I've pulled down then TigerMUD stuff. I'm going through the code, mostly trying to gain an understanding of how the code works. Do you have any suggestions on what I should do now?

~Jonathan
Coordinator
Feb 3, 2008 at 8:54 PM

I'd start easy like just adding a room, a simple spell, and then perhaps a mob. Then take the new mob and add code to make them do something different than default, like use the menu code and present a simple menu to the user when they are spoken to. This would let you work with the code that is still being added to.

However, if you're more interested in the communications side more, then the threads to communicate with the clients and the socket code might be your thing. Note that this code is stable now and hasn;t changed in quite a while.

Those are great operations to get a taste of the main code without taking on so much to get overwhelmed at first.

Feel free to ask here if you have any questions or IM me.

Cheers!
Adam
Developer
Feb 3, 2008 at 10:43 PM
I'm having problems compiling TigerMUD. I pulled down the whole trunk, and I opened TigerMUD.sln, but when I attempt to compile it, it throws out a few errors and tons of warnings.

One error is about being unable to find CastingManager.cs. Two others are on a missing file "DramaManager.dll". The last two are on an unknown namespace name "TigerMUD" in Server.cs.

Any ideas?
Coordinator
Feb 4, 2008 at 2:11 AM

Hi Ross,

Can you add CastingManager.cs file to source control? It is required, but missing from there. That error is probably causing all the rest too, but let's see once it is checked in.

Thanks!
Adam
Developer
Feb 6, 2008 at 7:56 AM
Done.

Sorry for the delay guys. Anyway, if you have any other concerns/suggestions for the XML (so-so done) and DramaManager (NOT YET DONE, ARGH!) modules, feel free to IM me at Yahoo for a quicker response. :-)

Yahoo: monsterfan86